Live from Sales HQ with Bryan Coble

We're live from Sales HQ. I'm Vince Beze, your host and the founder of Sales HQ. And my guest today is Brian Kobel. Brian, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. Before we get into a little bit more about Brian and his background, a little plug for Sales HQ. We are a co selling community for high performing sellers and sales teams.

Our first location is here in beautiful Morrisville, North Carolina, which if you know anything about Morrisville is famous for being very close to the airport, which is convenient for a lot of people. But what is a co selling community? A co selling community and at sales HQ means. Sales individuals and sales teams coming together from different companies, different roles and collaborating and working together in a high energy sales floor.

Basically what we're doing is we're replicating what it was like to work on a sales floor, like back in the day before the pandemic and even greater than that. For more information about sales HQ, you can go to sales HQ dot C O that sales HQ dot C O Well, Brian, welcome to the show. Glad to have you.

We've seen a lot of each other in the last couple of weeks.

We have,

we have always here though, right? That's the one consistent.

Absolutely. It's great too. It's a great spot. Great spot. Highly recommend it.

So tell us a little bit about what you're up to today and then we'll get a little bit more back into your history and how you got started into sales.

For sure. For sure. So what I do today is I work with small to medium businesses. to help them grow their sales, simply put. So, uh, your go to market infrastructure all come into a small to medium business that's looking to scale up, either hire a sales force, you know, grow their sales team, support it. And I work as their fractional VP of sales and build their sales infrastructure.

You say small to medium or these, uh, companies in a specific vertical or industry, or is it all over?

Uh, well, more of my history, but typically it's a tech startup. So B2B SaaS, uh, tech enabled services are most of what I work with. Uh, however, I have found, uh, that a lot of small to medium businesses now, you know, Outside industries, construction, uh, staffing, you name it, uh, are all looking to grow their, grow their revenue.

So, uh, surprisingly have found a lot of interest there for, you know, just sales consultancy and, and providing that for those types of businesses as well.

Yeah. The tech economy has probably, would be the go to, but, uh, it's not doing as well as it used to. So it will come back, but it's good to hear you're working with traditional businesses as well.

So I often find when I do these interviews that, um, sales people and sales leaders didn't grow up wanting to potentially be in sales or didn't go to college for sales. So how did you start your career in sales?

That's a good question. Like, uh, a lot of folks that kind of fell into it. Um, so I have an degree in political science, so, uh, perfect

for sales.

Yeah.

Perfect. So I, uh, Got through college, got my piece of paper. Um, you know, it was a good experience. Uh, but a little bit of background. So I worked, uh, my family business growing up, uh, was an arborist service. It was a tree service. Okay. The people that come and cut down trees in your yard, uh, or along the highway.

So my father owned that company, you know, was an entrepreneur. Seeing him do that as I grew up and I've obviously worked in the business, uh, did a lot of manual labor But what I found is kind of when I got into that high school college realm, it was a lot of just Yeah, customer relations and understanding how to talk to people and driving value to get more of our services out.

So that's really where my sales started.

Plus, you didn't want to be on the tree cutting it down in the hot weather.

Exactly. I would, uh, I did that. But I found that, uh, Uh, working with the, with the customers was, uh, a

lot more enjoyable,

a lot more enjoyable, less dangerous to an degree. So, uh, yeah, so that's, that's effectively how I got into sales.

I was through that small, that how old were when you

started working in your dad's business?

Uh, legally,

we're in North Carolina. So,

uh, so I, I really, when I was a kid, but yeah, I really threw it, threw up, you know, 16, 17, you know, some years through college and all that, some years through college. And, um, yeah, so it was a great, just get your hands dirty work experience.

Uh, but I found that, you know, there's, I learned how to really, run a business that way and understand how to grow profits and revenue, you know, through that. So, uh, did that. And then, you know, I actually decided, Hey, I want to get into sales. So

did you try anything with political science once you graduated or not?

Uh, no, no, it was, uh, it was good at law school and I was, uh, I was, I was done with school. Uh, so yeah, so I ended up taking a outside sales position with a company in Charlotte and we, uh, called. It was called, uh, W M plastics. And what we sold was

plastics.

Uh, it, it was that you would think you would think,

I hope it's got something to do with plastic.

But so if you think about a screen printers, the people that print signs in your, in your t shirts, there's a whole industry out there. it's really small to medium shops that prop t shirts, promotion, stuff like that. And the plastic ink is what we sold. So I S I sold all the supplies and, uh, you're

contributing to the demise of our environment is what you're saying, Brian.

So it's all

environmentally friendly. This is, this is dating back. Yeah, I'm sure back then too. Right. Um, so, but that was a really good baptism of fire because, you know, I had a territory, I'm,

So you went right into closing sales role.

Yeah. Well, it was outside sales. Full stack. Uh, they gave me a, a really, uh, crappy company car to drive around North Carolina, Virginia.

And it was go as get, get as many meetings with these business owners as you could

face to face

face to face. Uh, lots of door knocking, you know, go, I would go to the yellow pages into, and I'd go to town to town, you know, find the businesses and go stop by and your database was

the yellow pages. Your phone was.

Cheese, what did you use as a phone back then? You probably had to go into the office to do that, right?

It was flip phone time. Was it flip phone? Okay. So this is early 2000s. All right. So I had, I had a laptop. We did have a CRM. At that point, nobody used it. So, um, yeah, that, so that was it. And yeah, I did that for about a year.

Um, and I got lucky. I got lucky because I mean, it was, it was, It was a lot of travel. I mean, at the time I was, you know, no kids, not married, but I found a cousin's best friend, as most people, uh, you know, find their jobs, you know, they had a startup, a B2B SaaS company, which at the time, SaaS really wasn't a thing.

It wasn't really known yet, but they were, uh, Yeah, they were expanding and looking for some, uh, you know, hungry salespeople to get out and at the time, you know, they could afford me, I guess, is the best way to put it. And, uh, so I took a job with, uh, a company called, it's called school dude at the time, uh, that evolved to dude solutions.

And now they've, uh, been, been grown and acquired, but that was really effectively how I got into really that B2B SAS motion. And it was a really good experience because. we figured a lot of it out as we went. So this is dating back. We didn't have all the enablement that we have at our fingertips now and all the training.

This is early two thousands, early two thousands. And so that journey took me through, you know, I started as what would be now known as the sales development rep, uh, just cold calling. I'm curious

back then, did you call it a sales development rep or did you call it something

else? I think it was my first title was like associate sales rep.

It wasn't as

formalized. It wasn't as

formalized. And so, yeah, just going through that, uh, yeah, I was fortunate to have, you know, they had a lot of talent and, and in sales and leadership at that company. So I was able to, you know, be mentored, uh, you know, grow myself as a salesperson, you know, was individual contributor there for about seven years, seven years.

So, you know, work my way up to the selling bigger, bigger accounts, uh, owned a territory. And the company

grew tremendously during that time.

It did. It did. Uh, so in that, in that phase, we were still pretty bootstrapped, uh, hadn't really taken on any capital yet. And that was a really good just journey to build my, my, my sales career.

And we did take on, uh, some capital. So when that happened, uh, there was, we, we hire a lot of people. Uh, that's really when I stepped into leadership. Yeah. I mean, I got to manage a small team, which was a really good experience because. It's manageable. We performed. Uh, and then where things get, I tell people where things get difficult is when you, when you have a larger team and really have to build your leadership skill set, uh, and expand.

So as that journey wrapped up, we took on some equity. We grew the business. Over a period of four years, uh, founders had an exit. So it was a very positive experience. And then I was able to lead a large sales team at that company.

So right place, right time, knew somebody. It's interesting, like I often find that in most people's careers, one, they didn't, again, they just walked into a sales role, a happenstance or whatever might happen.

But also the better opportunities have always, in my opinion, come from referrals. And it sounds like you had a relationship with somebody that's at the time that got you the foot in the door.

I did. I did. And that was, that was, that was great. Now the, the sales job I was doing, you know, it was, you know, it was tough.

It was knocking on doors. It's not easy. Uh, so yeah, I, I put myself out there in the, in the community, like, Hey, I'm looking for, you know, really the right company.

I want to go back to the, when you're doing door to door. Cause I actually, my first, I guess, quote unquote, real sales job was going door to door to, um, and man, if you've never gone knocking on someone's door, walking in there and asking for business, asking for the speak to the owner and all that whole process, you want anxiety.

That's anxiety. Like if you can do that and have success with it, you can sell basically anything because It's real time and in your face and there's no facial expressions, tone, all those things and rejection right in front of your face. It's, it's good and rewarding, or it's really bad and you're dejected walking out.

But. What were your takeaways from that experience of going door to door?

Uh, that's how you described it as accurate. Um, you know, I, I did find that, you know, it was a numbers game, right? So, you know, I got 20 nos before I got a yes, just for the owner to take a meeting with me because yeah, I'm walking in, I'm having to come back.

But when you had the meeting, the face to face was phenomenal because then, then you had their attention. Uh, you know, my, my posture, my tone going into those meetings was I wanted to be helpful to them, you know, be a resource, uh, for whatever the thing was. Uh, so I learned, I learned that it's, it's, it's, No matter what, it's a numbers game, uh, but it's also a people game.

Yeah. And the face to face thing, it does produce fruit.

Uh, funniest thing about when I was doing it toward the door, I was so used to rejection of going in and say, Hey, can I speak to the owner? One time I, he says, I am the owner. And he goes, what do you want? I'm like, uh, uh, I never got to that point of like actually being able to explain what I was trying to sell.

And he stumped me by actually Was going to give me a second to explain it. So I failed at that. But then after that, I was like, okay, the next one I go to. There could be a chance that they might be willing to talk to me. So be prepared to be able to sell what you got. So that was, yeah, and they were, I mean, these,

these are all again, small to medium business owners.

So they're, they're generally good people, but they're busy, but they're busy, but they're, but they're very busy. They're, they're running their thing. They're trying to

manage their employees. It's a lost art being able to do that like that. That's a And now you get religious groups and different people knock on your homes, uh, which is hard as well and difficult, but it's a learning experience for sure.

Versus a hundred percent behind email or digital, right? I mean, anyone can be brave behind an email, but going face to face with somebody is another different challenge, right? Absolutely. So, oh, cool. So guide you up to, to, to Dood solution had a great run there. Um, I want to switch now to you're moving into sales leadership.

One of the topics that's interesting to me is The concept of coaching versus managing, right? Like a lot of people say, I'm your manager, but nobody wants manager, right? I mean, if you're a sales rep, you want to learn, you want to expand, you want to get better. So explain to me in what it means to be a great coach versus a manager or managing versus coaching.

So managing versus coaching. Um, so. What I found is, you know, as I've kind of gotten a consultancy, I did some consulting specifically for coaching with the, with the company, like, uh, in between my time. My past two companies. And you know, what's interesting, the data point is, you know, actual focus coaching, uh, versus just doing a manager one on one where we're looking at your pipeline and we're talking about deals and, you know, just give me the quick hits.

The coaching piece is really what really what drives win rate. So there's tons of data out there. Hey, if you can do some focus coaching where it's structured, uh, you know, your team or your rep that you're coaching from a leadership perspective, you know, their win rate will grow,

will

grow because you're developing them.

It's, you know, it's not a punitive type conversation. Uh, there's, there's movement on it. And so, you know, the difference between, I mean, managing is not bad. It's just, it's part of the job. I like to define the, uh, Um, I like to separate out the coaching piece from the managing and by doing that, you know, my experience has been when I'm, I'm working with somebody in a coaching capacity, they know 100 percent what we're doing and how it's valuable to them.

Um, and so it's all, it's about setting the expectation with, uh, the person you're coaching number one, and then giving them the resources and, you know, getting them into a comfortable environment of, of just being helpful, right. Um, and then just having that focus time outside of. the pipeline review and outside of, you know,

so how often did you schedule the one on one coaching with your team?

So depending on the size of team, um, it was once every two weeks, we had a focus coaching session. So I, there's different ways to do it. Um, there's group coaching, uh, but the one on one coaching is really where where it happens and that's the piece that a lot of companies and management just they get busy and they say, Hey, it's the thing

you knock off the calendar.

It's like, Oh yeah,

I got my push it

out

with Jill at, um, 7 a. m. Like, Oh, we'll do that next week and it gets pushed out. But for me really the consistency on that and just doing it consistently, you know, communicating with the, uh, you know, my, my team member on what was happening and what we're working on.

That's really where I saw. The most growth in, in, in management.

You know, and it took me a while to understand that from the salesperson's perspective, the most important meeting that they had with their manager was the coaching because it was for them to help them to get better. And I found over time took me a while.

That's the meeting they actually looked forward to as opposed to the pipeline review or the stuff about general improvements or evaluation stuff. It was the coaching sessions. And. I did my best over time to make sure I always kept those meetings. It didn't cancel as means because it was the thing that they appreciated the most that you did for them.

And I find that today That as, as I think a lot of frontline leaders don't do that enough or they skip it too much and I don't think there's enough coaching going on today. What's your thoughts about that?

I would agree. I would agree. And you know, the, uh, the data point would be, you know, if you can do coaching consistently there, there's data out there, I can, I can get it.

Um, but you're looking at 30, 30 to 40 percent win rate conversion. Like it, it drives the numbers. Because it's the most effective way to do it. But it's the number one thing that managers don't do

because it's hard. I mean, you have to put some thought into it because if you're going to coach, you have to coach to the actual player to the actual person.

Right? So what are some of the things you did? Um, and the coaching to help people specifically.

Okay. So number one, focus on, right? Yeah. So number one, it would be, Yeah, the setup of it, you know, it did take some communication to set it up correctly. So for the individual, no, it's a priority to me so they can make it a priority for them.

So that'd be one. And then within the actual coaching structure. Within the coaching structure, I would often at the start of them at the, you know, whatever time period it was, you know, I would ask them what they think their, their biggest weaknesses are. And it would be a conversation. I may, I may have some disagreements, uh, but the point is we would land on that one thing we want to work on.

And so every week we were on the same page at that point. It would be, Hey, we were going to work on, you know, your, your time blocking and prioritization. Okay. We've agreed that that's. The thing that's your growth area. Let's talk about that. And we'll have takeaways. And we can see the ball moving down the field every week on that, and then I could be helpful.

And then, or if it was, Hey, I want to do meetings better, or I want to, I know my, my cold calling game or my prospecting game is not the best. So we would focus on that. So to simply put it, it was, we would focus on one thing that they were bought. It makes sense.

I'm curious. You mentioned the alignment you'd land on a specific things to coach on.

Yeah. How often did the salesperson and you agree on what that person need to prove on? Meaning, were they self aware? Did you find people to be self aware? Most

of the time, yes. I'd say 70 percent of the time, they were self aware of the thing that they needed the most help on.

And when they're not, you're like, yeah, that's a good topic, but maybe we'll do this one, right?

Yeah.

And so the

other 30 percent then that's a conversation. Right. Um, and then, yeah, that's just kind of where you just have to be transparent, um, and, and, and truthful and direct and just say, Hey, this is what the numbers are showing me this.

Yeah.

So, yeah. Is it really the thing that you want to work

on.

What's your thoughts today? I look at sales today and individuals in sales today. Kind of like I look at youth sports. When I was playing youth sports, you went out and you played for your rec team and then he played for your school teams and you move from one sport to the next and you didn't do training in between that for the other sport.

Now everything specialized in sports, right? The kids gives these hockey is going to play in a club and he's going to train year round and he's got probably his own his or her own personal coach. And I'm seeing that happen in sales, too, where it sales, uh, contributors, high performers, obviously taking coaching from their leadership, their management, but also hiring specific coaches.

What's your thoughts about that? You think that's a good thing? That's a good trend? Or

I think it's a very good trend. Uh, I would agree. I mean, you know, sales is getting, I'd say the, the sass journey, the Texas journey over the past several years has showed us that specialization matters. Um, you know, for career growth, for hitting your revenue goals and it's about driving focus.

Um, but from a professional development standpoint,

I

think it puts a lot on, um, yeah, I think it shows a lot for an individual to go out and get an outside coach. Um, and I, I encourage it. I mean, even me personally, like I work with an executive coach. because I need, I need somebody to help hold me accountable and work on my, my blind spots and, you know, help me move the ball forward professionally.

So, Yeah, a hundred percent. Even, you know, but if it's a specific coach for a specific thing and I'm going outside and getting specialization on that, I'm all for it.

Yeah, I think that's true. I think even more so now because, uh, when I first got in the sales, I didn't really think it was going to be my career, but I love the fact that a lot of younger folks are starting a sales as a career and they want to do it forever, which is awesome.

If that's, if you're taking it seriously, like you should, then having a third party objective professional helping you, you know, With your blind spots, because you're right, that's career development verse. Your, your leadership is going to help you of course get better. But at the end of the day, once you get better to sell their products, their services, which is obviously what you should be doing.

But as a, as a human being, we all want to get better at what we do, right? Whether it's just in life or in sales and so on and so forth. Um, what's the difference between having a coach and having a mentor? I was just thinking of that. Like, cause the other thing we talk often about is, you know, folks to find a mentor mentor or mentors through life.

What do you see a difference between the two? And if so, what do you think they are?

I do see a difference. Um, I think they can, they definitely fall in the same structure. Uh, to me, mentorship is, I think, I think mentorship should be structured like you should, if you have mentors. They should know that they're your mentors.

It should be organized. Um, et cetera. But they're really, I mean, it's just mentoring. Coaching is, would you

pay for a mentor?

Um, I don't think so. No, no. I just, I think that to answer, give the quick answer. I think you pay for a coach. You pay for a coach. You don't pay for a mentor. You don't pay for a mentor.

Yeah. That's, that's, that's what I think the, the, the key differences.

I'd stay away from mentors looking for payment. Yeah,

exactly.

Um, let's move on to another topic, which is, um, Win rates. I always firmly believe that the most important thing in sales to focus on from a KPI standpoint is win rates because at end day, if you're not closing deals, but closing deals at a high percentage or the highest percentage you can, what difference does all the other metrics mean?

So what are some of the things you've done in your career to help focus, increase win rates?

Okay. So if I had to land, I get asked this question a lot, like, Hey, what is the, what is the key metric that really matters besides close one deals? Right. That's, I mean, that's, that's the outcome. But if you really want to look at the number one leading indicator, it's, it's meetings.

So, and having effective meetings. So, and really within the meeting, that's where when rates happen. So, uh, you know, kind of back to the coaching thing, the number one thing that I would always drive to coach on. Would be the effectiveness of that meeting, whether it was a salesperson on the phone with a prospect, uh, doing discovery.

You're more later, you're, you're further in stage, you got more people on the phone or in the, in the room and it's just effectiveness of that meeting because that's the number one thing that they can control. Yes. So I'm just a big believer that, Hey, number one metric leading in the hardest

thing to do is to get a meeting.

So once you get the meeting, man, do the most you can with that meeting. The thing I'd add to what you said about the means, but. 100 percent agree with you about meetings being extremely important KPI. Um, one, honestly, I only look at a couple of metrics. That's one of the three that I look at. The second thing with a meeting to me is, is what was the outcome and what was the stated next step?

Right? For example, salesperson has a meeting. Hey, I had a meeting. That's great. Love me. It's an awesome meeting. Everybody was happy. But what was the outcome? Oh, we ran out of time. We didn't really get to talk about next steps or get feedback. So, uh, so what was the sense of having the meeting if you didn't have an agenda with an associated outcome to that?

What are you trying to get out of this? And most importantly, a next step to me. It's like, if you didn't leave a minute or two or three, whatever it takes the end. to gather some feedback and get the next step. Well, how do, how do we really know how the meeting went other than reading the room? Of course.

Right. So yes,

I would agree that, uh, you know, the outcome in the next step,

even

if it's a no,

I assume when you were, you're teaching, it was the right

thing.

You're providing a structure. Here's what an efficient meeting. Here's what a real, uh, well run meeting looks like. Right?

Yes. Yes. So a couple of things that I don't want to get into.

Two in the weeds, but number one, I said, so if I was, if I was coaching to this, um, yeah, there's a couple of key things that I like to bring up. I like to bring up. So number one, always have an agenda. So, and I mean, I've seen this, I've seen the win rates increase when you have an agenda, even if you're on zoom, a visual one.

Yeah, but Brian, it was just, you know, a casual meeting. Why do I need an agenda? Right?

Well, uh, this is my opinion. I don't know if it's science, but by the way, that wasn't

my voice. That was me pretending.

But most, most human beings want the comfort of knowing what's going on. So even your prospect on the other end of the line, It shows that you respect their time and that you want to, that you value their time just by showing like, hey, here's our plan today.

I came prepared. I came prepared with the structure for our meeting and 99. 9 percent of the time. that helps with their engagement. They're going to flip their camera on. Um, they're going to say, Oh, Hey, Brian prepared for this.

Well, it's, it's also just sets. What's the intention? Like, what is, what is the, you want from me today?

Right. I know you're a salesperson and I know you want to sell me this thing, but what is intention? And I'll give you an example to what you're saying. Like, let's say you're doing your job and you just, you know, I want to catch up with John just to prepare for the next Tuesday's meeting. Hey, John, it's Vince, right?

I'm just quick call. I want to get ready for next Tuesday. So it's not like here's my agenda It's you can work in what your intention the meeting is as the agenda in a very casual way when it's a casual meeting That's my point about of pretending as a salesperson before is that yeah, you can work it And it's it's called having a conversation But the other person on the side of the conversation would like to know Why are you calling and what's this about?

So they can kind of think, uh, and be prepared as you ask them questions or at least know what we're after on this call that you called or email or whatever it might be. Right? Yes. Am I getting too much? No, no, that's that's perfect.

Yeah. So you're the agenda is important because it level sets. It shows that you're prepared.

Um, and the person on the other end of the agenda, right? Or the group, right? It's appreciated.

Right?

Uh, so last thing on the agenda, what I found is always when you're beginning the meeting, you're saying it up, always shouldn't bundle in. Hey, we, I'd like to have five minutes just at the end of this. I'm going to recap our discussion, right?

And then I want to talk, I want to talk you through and get your feedback on next steps. So you're on the agenda, you're setting yourself up to get, uh, you know, an outcome. Even if the outcome is, No, at least you, at least then you're going to have it. And a no is better than a maybe.

And you know, folks out there again, like the meeting's going well, conversation's great.

It's good back and forth. And you're like, you know what? I'm not going to save any time at the end because it's going so well. I don't want to cut it off. I say, no, that's a bad idea because it's like a great comedian. You want to leave the show on a high note. Because as you continue gone, it's going to go down, but you missed the point of your agenda of the meeting is we've done all we came to do now.

It's time to wrap. Now. It's time to get feedback. Now. It's time to get next steps because if you if you just let those things go by because you feel that the meetings just going so great and you didn't want to interrupt it. Then you kind of didn't hold up to your promise of what you started the conversation with and hold everybody accountable for the meeting.

So I just I'll put it out there. That's I get why you wouldn't want to stop it. But it takes a little bit of discipline and understanding it in the long run. It's the better thing to do. Right?

Yeah. So for a keep it simple, keep a simple approach. The agenda matters big time. So. Kind of going through the agenda.

Typically, I mean, I'm talking about just sales meetings in general with prospects, or it could be a client if you have something to talk about. Yep. Um, the next fundamental thing is, uh, and you can put this on your agenda that you want to keep it about that. Uh, and you can even call out and just say, Hey, I'd like to just, Hey, we're gonna do some quick introductions if it's the first time or if there's new people in the room.

Um, but I'd like to talk about, you know, your process or what you're struggling with. here. Really, the reason that you're there is to help them solve something or help them with a pain. So just by positioning that, like, really what you want is you want them talking about this problem, about this pain, and then you want them talking 80 percent of the time versus us telling them how wonderful and great we are and how many, you know, Yeah.

Millions of users or whatever the things are that we, that we have. So I always put that in the agenda, like the meat of our conversation is going to be about you.

And solving your problems. Yes.

Important. And then all you put in the agenda, like, Hey, I'm, I will talk about my business or you know, my company, but I, I first, I want to understand.

your business first.

So going back to why we started this conversation at meetings because it's a very important metric to measure for success. Um, I don't want to put you on the spot, but like the salespeople that you manage that had Was it the volume of meetings or the quality of the meetings that are both that led to more wins?

It's both. It's both. I mean, the, I say the easiest path, um, depending on the size of the company you're in, depending on the size of the company you're in, the amount of marketing, the gen support you have, really the quality of meeting is really where the rubber hits the road. Uh, because just based on time and the resources that you have as a salesperson, I think you mentioned before.

I mean, that meeting, I mean, that's gold. Just getting that meeting alone is massive, especially if you're in a startup or a smaller business. And so just putting focus in there and upping the win rate, I mean, hey, if you have five meetings in a month and you won 80 percent of them, that's all good. But if it's, you know, You know, I'd say when things get more transactional, you know, the volume, I mean, the volume of course matters, but I think it has dependencies on size of business or size of quota.

I guarantee

you talk to any transactional rep, it's doing a ton of meetings on a daily basis. They would sacrifice a number of those to get you just the high score leads that have coming inbound, right? Like for the transactional game, right? Yes, volume matters, but quality. And then for enterprise, gosh, Getting an enterprise level meeting and everybody show up is like, thank God.

Um, and so taking advantage of that is huge to me. I tracked the number of meetings, the course reps, but I tracked also the meeting to the outcome of the next step as well. Right. And how, how good that actual meeting, uh, went as well. And then from, from that to net new opportunities created, of course, so it's meetings to net new opportunities, opportunities closed.

Really. Those are the three biggest metrics for me. I

mean, and I'd say that is the equation. That is the equation for 90 percent of businesses. I mean, some of, some of them are trying to get to that, but that's the equation that gives, that gives your leadership predictability, you're driving predictable revenue at the, at the top level.

That's really what they're,

And I, and I, doesn't it scare you as a leader when I forget about summer months or high vacation, or if you have peaks in your, your selling, um, uh, motion, but like when I see a huge drop off in meetings from week to week or month, month or quarter to quarter, that's the thing that scares me the most, because that's the biggest leading indicator of, am I going to have net new opportunities or more opportunities?

Right. And it's like. And you're, again, the hardest thing to do is start the conversation, get a commitment to ha to schedule the meeting, and then have them attend the meeting. Right. Once that happens, you're pretty much gonna know from there if it's a fit or not a fit or an opportunity, or not an opportunity, but getting that first one is really the goal.

Yes. Right?

Yeah. So, I mean, solving the, the solving to the top of funnel. Yep. I mean, from my experience, that's where I've seen, and for the, the growth businesses I've been a part of. Yep. Once we solve that, yep. That's when everything else got predictable. So I would fully agree with that.

Well, I think we really got into that probably a level of granular.

Some people, geez, that was deep, but hopefully that was helpful for folks out there listening. Um, we're going to take some audience questions and then I have one wrap up question. Before we leave, if you want to ask a question, Linda, please just take that mic and hit the on switch so we can get it recorded.

Hear your lovely voice right there. See where it is. No, no, no. It's right there. And there's a little on off switch.

So this thing is on

if it's switched up.

Yes,

there it is. You're good.

Um, sorry, I missed the beginning, but you just use an expression in top of muddle,

top of funnel.

I

like muddle better.

Um, so Vince, you were just saying about the KPI, about being the number of meetings, but wouldn't you say that's because you have a good, pretty good fix on making sure your meetings are quality and your team has quality meetings?

I think again, I think the, Okay. The number of meeting is relevant to the type of business or sales motion you have, right? Transactional first, mid market versus enterprise, right? Um, so I think the volume is very relevant. relevant, um, and important, but quality is way more important. Meaning like I've seen marketing departments do little tricks to get the number of meetings up, like giving away for a head of headphones or a gift card or whatever.

I don't have anything against those, but I will say the quality of those meetings are lacking. So I'm not a big fan of those. I'd rather have my volume be down a little bit. But the quality be right. That's the most important thing to me.

So for people who are afraid of sales, I'm not good at sales, but I'm really good at selling to sales people.

I don't know why that is. Um, are

you in psychology, your psychology major? Because sales people are easy to sell to. They want to buy. You give them a reason. If you understand what their pain is and you give them a reason, God, they won't argue with you, right? Like, Hey, that sounds reasonable. I think that's part of it.

Great.

Does anyone else have a question? Thank you. Linda.

Hey, this is Connor here. Ryan, Vince, you think about topic, especially now it is coming out. I was successful here by my course. If you were, you know, earlier in your career at this point today, how would you siphon out what a good trainer mentor, you know, um, one of the world courses, sales courses is, is.

That's a good question.

So I've got an opinion. It's to be a little bit strong. So I would agree. There is a, um, the sales enablement coaching world, it's just massive right now. And LinkedIn is a big part of that. I mean, that's a lot of what is on LinkedIn are, uh, people that have, you know, structured coaching programs and playbooks, uh, et cetera, et cetera.

And it's just so much, It's just so much dopamine coming at you that it's very hard to decipher that out when you're looking for the best, uh, best coach for you. So things that I look for, I do want to understand who the individual is and what their experience is. And typically I would shy away from, you know, If I, for me, so for me, if I'm going to pay a coach, I want to understand that they've been doing this for a while, they've done, they've, they've got some scars, like they've done the thing.

And, um, you know, I'm going to have their availability. So the things I I'm not knocking on. You know, the, the franchise model of, uh, of coaching, um, I think those, those one size fits

all type of one size fits

all, but it really kind of comes down to the individual coach. Yeah. Uh, and what they're kind of what their IP is or their intellectual property.

And so for me, like when I look for my executive coach, it was very specific on what I was after. So, I mean, I had to, it was a sales process for me to go find a coach. Yeah. But those are the things that I looked for.

I think that's, I add on to that. I think what you hit on is like, it's, it's gotta be a personal experience.

Meaning, If you're looking for a one on one coach as opposed to just a program, which was lots of those two, nothing wrong with them, find a coach that you aspire to, so if you want to be an enterprise level seller, find a coach or a program that's specifically around enterprise sales, where you want to go.

It's the easiest way to get started, honestly, Connor. couple books, read a couple books. Sales hasn't changed in a lot of years. How we sell the channels we sell on has changed, but like sales fundamentally hasn't changed. So I start with books first and go from there. And I think the best way to figure out which coaches or books to start with is I preach all the time is your network.

Ask your friends, colleagues, peers, people you respect, Hey, what's a book that you would, uh, you would read if you were trying to go in here. Or who's the person I should speak to if I wanted a coach and that sort of thing. I think that's always what I rely on as network first and then go from there.

Uh, the other thing I'll add to before you start really investing in all that, I recommend any individual take some kind of a personality profile, like take a disc assessment, take a Myers Briggs.

Because those things don't lie. That's true. And you really, kind of knowing thyself, going into a coaching experience is much better. And the coach you get paired with, they should care about that too. Because you can be up front with them and say, hey, these are the things I'm looking on. Not even if it's a personality thing, it's just, you know, Hey, I want to grow the skill set.

This is my personality. So here are my weaknesses. Here are my strengths. We're actually having a

masterclass on that in July, by the way. So, um, last question for you, Brian. Um, I don't want to put you in a spot. So I usually end on this. What is one interesting thing about Brian that most people don't know?

I'm just not that interested.

That's not, um, so it's gotta be one thing.

Yeah. I'd, I'd Interesting thing about me. I just did some odd jobs when I was, uh, you know, in college at that time. So, uh, you were a hit

man.

No, no, nothing that cool. Nothing that cool. Oh my gosh. So I'd say the, one of the most interesting things is I did, you know, one summer I went up to Alaska It did, uh, a fishing charter.

So I lived on a salmon boat for a month and a half. Uh, I like to preface it. It was not like deadliest catch. Like it's not, it was not that there was not waves coming over us and all that. It was, I, I,

how old were you?

Uh, I was 20, 20. So, uh, but it was a really good experience and, you know, made you, I bet

you, you decided you didn't want to be a, a, a fisherman.

No, it, it, it was really like camping on a boat. In the middle of nowhere for a month and a half. So

it was a bunch of guys

with a bunch of it's why it's why I don't camp now.

You can leave it at that. Hey, Brian, thanks for coming on. Absolutely appreciate you being a guest and everybody out there. Have a great day.

Until next time. Thanks. Appreciate it.