Live from Sales HQ with Josh Hein
We're live from SalesHQ. I'm Vince Beese, the founder of sales h u SalesHQ and your podcast host today. A little nasally sorry. I was coming down from a cold, so excuse my nasally voice.
Josh Hein:We're getting through it.
Vince Beese:Our guest today, the steamed Josh
Josh Hein:Heim For sure. Thank you.
Vince Beese:Part of we'll get into this, but part of the Citrix mafia.
Josh Hein:That's right. You can get it.
Vince Beese:I think we've narrowed it down to your, like, number 3 or 4 or 5 of you guys are really multiplying this
Josh Hein:there. Yeah. That's quite a few. I mean, you said you've had, what is this, podcast 20. Right?
Vince Beese:Number 20. And 4 or 5 of
Josh Hein:them have been Citrix or former Right.
Vince Beese:I think, gosh, you could probably just do a podcast with current and previous
Josh Hein:Oh, no doubt.
Vince Beese:Citrix just in the Raleigh area. That's right.
Josh Hein:We are all over the place.
Vince Beese:Well, welcome to the show. Before we get to that, SalesHQ. What is it? Well, do you guys remember working from a sales floor back in the day when you started a job, you sat next to someone who's kicking ass in sales, and you learn from that person who was called peer to peer learning. That's right.
Vince Beese:And it was the best onboarding you ever got. Well, that's what we're replicating here is that most of the folks in here are remote sellers or remote sales teams, and they come in here so they can get that feel of what it's like to work on a Salesforce. But more than that, it's collaboration, it's community. You know, we do this podcast, we do master classes and education stuff. So it's more than just a seat.
Vince Beese:It's about coming in here, working with others that take the craft of what we do, sales seriously.
Josh Hein:So Absolutely.
Vince Beese:That's what SalesHQ is about. You can get more information from saleshq.co. So now let's get back to you, Josh.
Josh Hein:And, first, let me just say with SalesHQ, if you don't mind. If I don't By the way, I'm not being paid to say this, but I love I love the getting everyone together. And, like you said, there's so many remote sellers, but I'm a huge advocate myself of having salespeople around salespeople. There's so much, like you said, learning that can be done, the energy that's there. There's nothing better than hearing someone ring the bell or hit the gong or whatever it is, and, you know, I think that that success breeds success.
Josh Hein:There's some momentum to be had there.
Vince Beese:So, anyway And you went to the event last Wednesday.
Josh Hein:I did. It was awesome, and it was a very well attended event. I met a lot of people, and I think that, you know, it goes to show too, we're not alone in feeling that way. No. I think there are a lot of people who feel the same way and appreciate that.
Vince Beese:No. And I you know, again, because we're on this topic, so I think it's a relevant topic. We'll get back to you. But, like, it's like the more the more I now speak to sales leaders, they're like, oh my god. I've got 20 salespeople across the country.
Vince Beese:I wake up every day wondering if they're motivated Sure. And what they're doing. Your space, if we had one where I live, would be great because they want to go into something like this. But I feel better as a leader that they're getting a benefit that they really need.
Josh Hein:As opposed
Vince Beese:to think about all the 1,000 of dollars we spend on salespeople for software, which isn't for really for sales productivity and and performance. It's tracking, typically. Right? Sure. So this is kind of a benefit that really would benefit salespeople and sales leaders.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Totally. I mean, I think that there are obviously benefits of the remote work and, you know, studies studies show that maybe some so so hybrid, right, is maybe a better way to go, but there's you can't replace and I thought it was interesting too you just mentioned onboarding
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:Because I think that is huge. I mean, there's when you get someone brand new in a role and they can come in and be around the people that have been doing it for a while and had success, super valuable.
Vince Beese:Sick. One of the members here just started a new job. The company's in San Francisco, and I'm like, hey. When are you flying out to San Francisco? He so he he started on a Monday.
Vince Beese:He sat at the desk, and he did his onboarding virtual. Wow. The whole thing. Entire week, he was on video the entire week. I'm like, what a waste.
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:And I assume It's like doing sales kickoff virtually. Yeah. Right.
Vince Beese:What's the sense? Right. Don't do it. Yeah.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Virtual stuff. You can
Vince Beese:send them out to do the onboarding in person. Yep. So So anyway Anyway. Tell us a little bit about yourself where you're up to, Josh.
Josh Hein:Yeah. So, you know, like you said, I think I've been with, I was part of this sort of Citrix group for a number of years. I was actually there when, we were ShareFile, so before we were acquired by Citrix, and that was a really great experience. I certainly learned a lot, you know, just viewing that, and then my career with Citrix sort of progressed from sales to vertical director to management and then ultimately training. And training was by far the most fulfilled, I would say, that I felt that entire time.
Josh Hein:I love sales. I've done a lot of different I've sold all kinds of different products and services, b to b, b to c, throughout my life. And, I will say, while I really loved selling, the training part is what really fired me up, and, I didn't I got actually got a coaching minor in college because I've always wanted to be a coach, and I didn't I just I never really sort of connected those two things. And, I think that, you know, once I became a trainer at Citrix, it really clicked for me, especially seeing results. You know, it's it's amazing to help someone or take someone brand new or whatever it is and, you know, you give them some information, you train them, you teach them some things, they use it, and then it, you know, changes their life.
Josh Hein:And so that's what I'm trying to do. I'm I'm training both, individual salespeople right now Right. As well as going in and training teams. So I'll work with a company and go in and train their team. It's great.
Josh Hein:I learn people, change people's lives.
Vince Beese:It's good that you really found what your calling was or what you feel passionate about because sometimes it takes people a lot longer to to figure it out.
Josh Hein:Absolutely.
Vince Beese:Let's go back in time. Yep. What was your
Josh Hein:first sales job? Yeah. So my, worst I would I always tell people where I got my start in sales wasn't actually a job. It was for my high school football team, and it was fundraising cards. So, this is, you know, we got the little it was a little look like a credit card on the back and had all the discounts for local businesses.
Josh Hein:Right? So most guys, you know, we had this everybody had to sell 5 or 10 of them and, you know, most guys would send the sheet to work with their parents and, you know, you get your your minimum done and you're good. Right? Raise the money for the team. And, I probably thought the same way until I found out that there was a scholarship reward, college scholarship reward, for the top sellers.
Josh Hein:And this so this company who did our cards, they do that program for schools around the nation. Right? Yep. So top sellers in the country would get a scholarship for, you know, for for going to school, and so, I said, well, look, I'm gonna go get that scholarship. And, so that's what I did.
Josh Hein:I was on my bike every day after practice or after school, and I literally just took my bike around all the neighborhoods, and I knew I'd gone too far when I, one of our opposing teams, bombs answered the dorms, like, you gotta go. I'm not buying your car. So I just I just grinded on my bike, and I got a one scholarship my junior year. I was a top 10 in the nation, and my senior year, I was the number one seller in the nation. For real?
Josh Hein:Of the you have the of the cards.
Vince Beese:How much did you sell?
Josh Hein:I don't it was hundreds of cards. I had people, I had people buying multiple cards as gifts, and I mean, I was, you know, it was it was a lot. I wish I had a scholarship.
Vince Beese:Do you remember?
Josh Hein:I don't remember how much it was. Obviously, not. It was just some sort of partial
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:Ride, you know.
Vince Beese:Boy, they loved you. They should have hired you. Yeah.
Josh Hein:Yeah. I never yeah. Again, I never really thought about that. Maybe should've hit them off after college. Hey.
Josh Hein:Remember me? But, so that was right. That was Yeah. Where my sales and for me, it was it wasn't
Vince Beese:You obviously loved it. You must have, but you didn't fear walking up to people's doors or maybe you feared it, but you got over it quickly. Yeah.
Josh Hein:I didn't really it didn't really bother me. And so, subsequently, my next couple of sales jobs were door to door sales. Yeah. And that's kinda where I got started. Oh,
Vince Beese:yeah. What
Josh Hein:what kind
Vince Beese:of door to door sales?
Josh Hein:I,
Vince Beese:sorry. I have to tell you. I hate those.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that's you're not alone.
Vince Beese:By the Yeah. You're not alone. The landscape people, whatever it is.
Josh Hein:Yeah. I I think that and we'll probably get into this, but I think the reason a lot of people hate them is, maybe just the approach that they take, but I guess that's a conversation maybe even for a different day. So I did roofing, siding, gutters. I worked for a construction company. Okay.
Josh Hein:We weren't, quasi storm chasers like you might hear, but we did help people with storm damage. Oh, yeah. But you weren't a storm chaser. Exactly. Yeah.
Josh Hein:I mean, I was I was helping people who didn't have storm damage too. So yeah. So I did that, and then, there was my first ever job was a, my sales job was actually a summer job in college, which was, a supposed to be a sports marketing job. That's how it was advertised. And I've played sports my whole life, and I thought maybe I'll get into that side of things.
Josh Hein:Turns out it was a door to door sales job. And we were selling, like different ticket packages. We had our company had partnerships with minor league sports teams, also some local restaurants. Yep. Like, I remember one of our biggest projects
Vince Beese:like those book things? Yeah.
Josh Hein:It was kinda like it wasn't the full book. It was like a little pamphlet almost, like a would fold out and you'd rip the thing off, and so it was like it was like that. So some smaller stuff, and then I went to, you know, obviously went to the the the roofing. Is that post college? Roofing was post college.
Josh Hein:Yeah. The, the discount cards were or the whatever they were, was in college. Yeah. Actually, I told my I I remember my parents not being very happy with me because, I was making so much money selling those cards door to door, and there was this great opportunity to grow within the company that I thought, well, why do I need to go back to college? You know, this is great.
Josh Hein:This summer's going great. I make all this money. I went, of course, I went back to school. I ended up going back, but, and I'm glad I did. Yeah.
Josh Hein:Yeah. So I love I love that's what started the loving sale.
Vince Beese:We I've talked about this numerous guests before, like, the face to face selling. If you can do that, like Yeah. Face to face rejection It's a different get an email rejection
Josh Hein:Yeah.
Vince Beese:Right, or a hang up. No doubt. Like, the owner's like, get out of here. We're not interested.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Right.
Vince Beese:You got a fixed schedule.
Josh Hein:You do. Yeah. Face to face I mean, face to face is all or yeah. It's all or a beast. And, I mean, I think there's some, some skills you can learn from that as well.
Josh Hein:But that rejection, no doubt, it helps build thick skin. Someone on the phone tells me that.
Vince Beese:But I also think part of the time, too, it's like when you're selling face to face, they're a little less nasty, too. Especially depending on how you approach it.
Josh Hein:Actually, you know, I agree with that. Yeah. I agree with that.
Vince Beese:You're a young guy when you're you're going up. I mean, why are they gonna be right. You know what I mean? Like, you're you're trying to make a living. You're hopefully opening up the conversation, you know, easing into it.
Vince Beese:Right? Like and I think to your point, like, that most of the time, people come in the door my my annoyance with them come in the door is because they're coming in the door and we have 2 dogs that bark like crazy.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Exactly. That's a
Vince Beese:pain in the ass for me that I have to deal with that, besides I don't need insurance.
Josh Hein:Or they come to dinner time or whatever. Yeah. Right. Like, what
Vince Beese:do you yeah. So but but, look, if they present themselves in the right way
Josh Hein:Absolutely.
Vince Beese:And they have some sort of value
Josh Hein:That's it.
Vince Beese:To offer, right, like, you gotta assume you're walking up to this neighborhood, this sort of house, they could probably have those services. So how
Josh Hein:can you help them? Yeah.
Vince Beese:How can
Josh Hein:you help? And that's that's really where I learned, one of the reasons I think I've been successful for was successful in most of my sales career was that was sort of just always my approach. Yeah. And maybe that was starting from the door to door days, but, you know, I always looked at sales, I think, maybe a little bit differently than some, but, I didn't ever really look at my quota or my number. You know, people stress their quota.
Josh Hein:They're trying to hit their number. I had set personal goals that were above my quota anyways. I was just high fiving my quota on the way by. Right? But with the way I would approach sales with a prospect was, like, how do I have this conversation where I'm providing a valuable Right.
Josh Hein:Service or product or whatever it is? And so I've kind of approached it that way, and then, ultimately, that sort of evolved over my career. Right?
Vince Beese:You looked at it as a conversation. Let's start a conversation, see where it goes, and maybe I can help you and maybe you can help me, and we'll go from there.
Josh Hein:Definitely. Right.
Vince Beese:And I
Josh Hein:think that's the way you have to sell. I mean, I sure should.
Vince Beese:You know, we're simplifying. But at the end of the day, really, that's what it is, isn't it? It's starting a conversation. For my example here, I I primarily only use myself and LinkedIn.
Josh Hein:Mhmm. And I
Vince Beese:start the conversation with very simple questions. Sure. I'm curious. Are you a 100 are you fully remote today?
Josh Hein:Mhmm.
Vince Beese:And it's either yes or no. Right. And, like, 70% of the people will actually respond to that question. Wow.
Josh Hein:Yeah.
Vince Beese:You know, it sounds like an authentic question. Or some people might say, well, why do you ask? Right. Great. Here's why I asked.
Vince Beese:Right. And so I don't then sell them something to second response. They ask a follow-up question. Exactly.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Exactly.
Vince Beese:Starting the conversation. Right? Like and I think, whether you're going to someone's door or it's an email, you've got to think about the thing that's going to start the conversation.
Josh Hein:No doubt. Absolutely.
Vince Beese:The thing that starts the conversation is the thing that's going to help them. Right?
Josh Hein:Yeah.
Vince Beese:That's right. So, go back to your career again. I'm curious, how did you get hired at ShareFile back in the
Josh Hein:Okay. So, it was interesting. I was actually selling cars at that time. So here I here I go. Tell me that.
Josh Hein:I didn't. Yeah. Which, I mean, I don't have a so, this was the car sales thing was Did you sell the undercoating too? We had some we had some things that were added, that Did
Vince Beese:you go to the manager's office?
Josh Hein:I'll tell you what. So I had this thought I
Vince Beese:don't know. I'll have to go to my manager's office. I've never seen a deal like
Josh Hein:this before. I'm sure. Yeah. I think we this is everything we got in it, but let me see if I can Yeah. So, so actually, we had a family friend when I was growing up Yeah.
Josh Hein:Who was, we had our family had met him because he was our he's who we bought all our vehicles from. And he was a great guy and he always treated us good and the way he sold was not so anyway, I was looking for a job and, a sales job.
Vince Beese:And I
Josh Hein:thought, you know what? Let me try to sell cars in a way that isn't the stereotypical sort of nasty And you fail. Car sale. I wouldn't say I failed, but it was, it became apparent relatively quickly that Yeah. That that sales process, it's just built this the car sales process, at least at that time at the dealership I was working at, was very back and forth.
Josh Hein:We're gonna spend 5 hours negotiating a deal. And, that's not what I what I wanted to do. Right? I wanted to again, I wanted to have genuine conversations with people and help them get into the car of their dreams or a car that would help their family or whatever. And so that was a little bit more challenging just dealing with the structure and the sales process and management and stuff like that.
Josh Hein:So, I randomly applied to this share file job. I think I was, I can't remember what number employee
Vince Beese:moved to the area,
Josh Hein:I assume. Yep. I was here. Yeah. I was in I was in North Carolina, and, I I was maybe employee number 50 or so.
Josh Hein:Do you remember?
Vince Beese:Who's the hiring manager?
Josh Hein:John Rosar was. Yep. And there was a there was another
Vince Beese:guy credit for your success. You know that. Right?
Josh Hein:That's alright. I don't I don't he's he's great. John's great. There was another guy named Ted Randall who was there, and he was in a sales role at the time. And so he was a part of that hiring process as well.
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:And, it was interesting because I I'd interviewed at 2 places. Mhmm. The other interview I felt great about and the share file interview, I thought, I don't think I did very well. I got the ShareFile job and not the other one, which was funny. So, anyway, that was I was, you know, I started at ShareFile.
Josh Hein:I was I think I was in the 50 range.
Vince Beese:What was the role?
Josh Hein:Came in everyone came in the same role as a lead general. So there was a what did they call it? SDR? Called a lead gen.
Vince Beese:Oh, okay. Yep. They called
Josh Hein:it what it was. They called it what it was. That's right. So you'd start in lead gen for, you know, somewhere around 3 months was the goal. You try to hit all your metrics and sort of ramp up and get to the point where you could be, you'd be promoted within 3 months.
Josh Hein:That was, like, the fastest you could get promoted. Right? It was outbound? Yeah. All outbound.
Josh Hein:So, I talked to I've got a lot of friends now who are SDR managers or, you know, work with a lot of SDRs and, you know, we see we see a certain number of calls that have to be made or emails or touches that have to be made today. When I started at ShareFile, our job every single day was to make a 150 dials or you could book 6 demos. And so Six demos a day? Yeah. So you'd come in, you would either book 6 demos in that day, or you'd make a 150 dials, and that's what it would take to go home, really.
Josh Hein:So people, you know, we'd work till 7 or 8 o'clock at night sometimes just to get your dials in. I mean, I personally preferred to hit the 6 demos booked. I think I made, I did have to make 150 dials a couple times. In my defense, one of those times I had a concussion, so I wasn't feeling myself. Just hockey, pick up hockey game.
Vince Beese:Otherwise, it was a great place
Josh Hein:for you. Oh, yeah.
Vince Beese:That was a great place for you.
Josh Hein:When you don't
Vince Beese:have a concussion, it was awesome. Yeah. It was awesome.
Josh Hein:So but yeah. So that was great.
Vince Beese:Sitting here in seats. I don't care if you're concussed.
Josh Hein:I'll tell you something. Interesting Way to go, Razar.
Vince Beese:Come on, man.
Josh Hein:Yeah. You've got your dials. I still got a you got a concussion?
Vince Beese:Still got the phone. No.
Josh Hein:It wasn't like that. It does when I tell that story or I talk about the 150 dials, everyone's like, oh, you know, that's a lot of dials. But it really, at least to me, it didn't feel like that. I mean, it didn't feel bad. It was it was a really enjoyable experience.
Josh Hein:We were all it was a it was a different culture. It was a I mean, we were bought in and we were growing this thing, you know. And and so it really felt like we were a tight group. We were working together and and trying to achieve something. So I don't know.
Josh Hein:At least for me, that didn't bother.
Vince Beese:Wasn't, it would have been a help. Yeah. You would have left after a month. Sure. Otherwise.
Vince Beese:Right? Yeah. So did you move on after 3 months?
Josh Hein:Yeah. I did. So then you go to a it's what we call it an individual closer role. So you're booking your own meetings and performing your own demos. And then after that, you can get promoted to what we call the senior closer.
Josh Hein:Okay? That's where the lead gen were booking the demos for you. So you perform. And then every once in a while, at least the the senior closers who I think were probably more ambitious, they would also book a few of their own demos. But, you know, your calendar is booked pretty full with 7 or 8 demos a day usually, as a senior closer.
Josh Hein:So I went through that lead gen, individual closer, senior closer, and then I became the director of the AEC, architecture, engineering, and construction vertical. Sounds exciting. Right? Well, what yeah. What was exciting about it is it was like building a new small small business.
Josh Hein:Right? It was a newer vertical for us. And we were the product was very successful. The ShareFile product was very successful in accounting Early on, that was kind of our biggest vertical, and then naturally, as we're growing and scaling, we're trying to find other verticals, and, so architecture, engineering, and construction was great, mostly for large file transfer at the time. So I got to help grow that, vertical out, and we built that out to be one of our biggest verticals.
Josh Hein:Oh, really? Over time. Yep. And then from there into management, and from management to training. Yep.
Vince Beese:And what type you say it was all internal training when you were there. Right?
Josh Hein:That's right. Yeah. I was training our SMB sales teams, and I was doing worldwide training. So I was training folks. We had some folks, in Ireland, so I was training them as well.
Josh Hein:Most of what I did was, a lot I should say a lot of what I did was, our new new closer training program. Yep. So basically teaching people getting promoted from lead gen into closing. How do we sell? What is the structure?
Josh Hein:What is the methodology? What is the framework? And then built in that were some sales skills as well.
Vince Beese:Yep. How often do you reinforce?
Josh Hein:It's so that's a that's a great question, and it's part of, I'll say, I think one of the things that makes what I'm doing now different than probably what what exists a lot out there. I think, you know, there are really 4 at least in my in my eyes, I think there are 4 critical components to a good training program, which is great content, practice, reinforcement, and accountability. You have to have those 4 things, all 4 things. I think Say
Vince Beese:that again, say them again.
Josh Hein:It's great great content. It starts with great content. Practice, reinforcement, and accountability. What's great
Vince Beese:content mean in this context?
Josh Hein:Yeah. So I I mean, I think when I think of great content, I think that you have to have content which is, first of all, it teaches people how to sell the right way, or it gives them the right skills or skills that are applicable.
Vince Beese:So there's materials you give to the sales
Josh Hein:Or how you deliver it. And then the other thing is it's not just the the the physical content like the the methodology or the framework itself, but also the way it's delivered. It needs to be delivered in an engaging way, interactive if possible. Right? All these different things that, go into ultimately the adoption rate of of that content.
Josh Hein:So, you know, that's that's what generally, there are a lot of things that go into great content. It's not just the material, but how it's delivered and things like that. And then from there, it's the, again, practice and reinforcement. So the practice piece is up to the individual. Right?
Josh Hein:The individual needs to take that information and practice and use it as much as they can. Reinforcement comes down to managers helping reinforce that. And then accountability, again, can come from themselves internally, managers, and so on.
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:So you have to have those four things. And, that all started from your question, which was how did we reinforce the content of Citrix? And, you know, I would say that our managers at the time did a great job of trying to go back through and reinforce the content that was delivered in that that training program that I delivered. One thing that I probably didn't do a great job of was giving very specific opportunities to reinforce that or even scheduling or prescribing ways to reinforce the content or when they should reinforce that. Right?
Josh Hein:And so, in hindsight, that's one of the things that I actually have changed with with the way I train now is is I really am heavy on that reinforcement piece of practice and accountability and all those things.
Vince Beese:And that's my thing as a long time sales leader is, like, you know, the the sales kickoff kind of training stuff. It's like, okay. It's good. Right. But I was often found then you leave.
Vince Beese:Then what? There's no reinforcement. There's no practice to your point. And it's like, that was that thing we did at sales kickoff. Then you next year comes around, you revisit what you did last year.
Josh Hein:Yep.
Vince Beese:And you're like, oh, we did that last year. Well, yeah, do it again. Right. You didn't reinforce it last year. So and and that's also my beef with hiring a third party trainer, which I have no problem with.
Vince Beese:But, like, if it's if it's for show, meaning entertainment value, that's cool. That's we don't spend your money on. But if it's truly to improve the performance of your sales organization, obviously, it needs to be customized for your team and your organization. But then again, the reinforcement. That's right.
Josh Hein:The reinforcement. The reinforcement. Couldn't agree more. So that is But it's like So important.
Vince Beese:That's the biggest failure. And it's just like, save your money if you're not going to, as a company, as a sales organization, to agree to hold them accountable for this and That's right. And to reinforce it.
Josh Hein:Yeah. I think because
Vince Beese:it means you don't believe in
Josh Hein:it then. Yeah. Well, yeah. If you don't have a plan for if you don't have a very clear plan for reinforcement, I mean, we all know people only you you only retain so much information the first time you go through it or hear it or read it. And if you don't have a clear plan for reinforcement, you know, I think that that's a huge miss.
Josh Hein:So I've seen that as a huge opportunity because I agree everything you just said is Yeah. But I
Vince Beese:mean exactly right. I'm not gonna tell you what you should be doing as a trainer, but, like, I where I see the values if I want out to be a a specifically a trainer is that I'm not doing this one off. Let's do a year arrangement. I'm gonna be your coach for the team for a year and reinforce all these things.
Josh Hein:That's what we do. Yeah.
Vince Beese:So Hey. It's got a business. Yeah.
Josh Hein:It turn turns out. That's exactly so, you know,
Vince Beese:just great reaction to that,
Josh Hein:I assume. I mean, I think, you know, we've had a lot of the program is successful Yeah. Because, one, I mean, obviously, I'm I'm biased, but the content is good. We focus on a it's it's it's not, you know, crazy, so crazy that people can't understand it or it's completely out of the box.
Vince Beese:Isn't new.
Josh Hein:That's right. So we again, I teach it's it's good content, and I I think I teach it in a in a good way. But what we'll do is we'll do that initial sort of if it's a business we're working with, it's initial sort of rollout where we get to understand, learn the business, learn how the business sells, learn about and, like you said, we can do we do some customization with the program, so we're actually delivering it to them in the way they sell. And then from there, though, the whole second half of that that we do is, again, I think novel in a way, which is the constant reinforcement. So we'll we do, ongoing mastermind calls or deal review type of calls where we'll go twice a week or, I mean, twice a month.
Vince Beese:That's the best way to see if it's reinforced.
Josh Hein:Exactly. And so we'll talk about specific deals. We'll talk about training concepts, all these things throughout the course of a year. So they're really getting it. But more than that, we take it even a step further and, we give folks access to our interactive system where and this is one of the things I'm most proud of because if you really want if you're an organization that really wants to develop reps
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:You don't just say you want to, but you really want them to develop. You need to be able to have them trained, coached, reinforced, all of those things on an ongoing basis, but also on a custom basis for what they need. And so a a lot of times what I'll see a team do is sales manager gets up. We're doing this monthly training, which is better than nothing. That's great.
Josh Hein:But that sales manager is talking to their entire team
Vince Beese:Yep.
Josh Hein:And then talking about a concept that maybe only helps 20, 30, 40 percent of that team. Right?
Vince Beese:Yeah. So
Josh Hein:one of the things we do with our interactive system is this system, anyone can go in anytime they want to, they can review the it's the same it's the same training content just on an e learning platform. But it's not just log in, press play, boring videos. It's interactive. I ask questions throughout. They have to interact with the information.
Josh Hein:There are role play opportunities within the system. But more than that, if you're a manager, you can go in and say, Vince, I noticed you've been struggling with your discovery. So I'm gonna assign you the discovery sessions in this training program. Now you go through there's accountability there because it's tracked and you get reports and all that, and then someone else on the team, maybe they struggle with Yep. Presentations.
Josh Hein:That's
Vince Beese:true. Every individual's everyone's an individual.
Josh Hein:That's right.
Vince Beese:They learn differently. They struggle with certain things strength and weaknesses wise. So that's smart. You're customizing the ongoing side of it. Right?
Josh Hein:So what you said is right. Yeah. You said it exactly right. Well, what you said is you have to have yeah. You have to have the you said, I'm not gonna tell you how to do your job, but here's how I would do it.
Josh Hein:And what you said is exactly right. You can do the initial training
Vince Beese:Yeah.
Josh Hein:And then you have to have ongoing reinforcement.
Vince Beese:Hey. Last last topic I wanna go into because we talked about this a little bit off off camera. Yeah. Selling versus pitching?
Josh Hein:Yes. Yeah. So I you know, for me, I I think, you know, pitching is and I say pitching, but pitching is not the way to sell. You know, you gotta stop pitching if you really wanna sell. And what I mean by that is, you know, I think folks need to have those genuine conversations.
Josh Hein:1st, it starts with the mindset that you have to have you have to be genuinely curious, and you have to be willing to help your prospects, trying to find a way to help your prospects. So the best salespeople are the ones who can have a genuine conversation with someone, understand someone's personal situation or their business, and figure out a way for their product or service to then help them. That's sales. And I think far too often, you probably see a lot of salespeople who will just dive into their pitch, right, or they'll just feature pitch a bunch of features about their product or service, not knowing exactly how that would help you. And they focus too much on just hitting their number rather than actually helping people.
Josh Hein:Focus on helping people. You'll hit your number. You won't have to worry about your number.
Vince Beese:I think if you think more like a marketer, I think you'll have more success. Because what I've found the trend to be and it didn't just start, but it's like, you've really gotta you've really gotta stop and take time to build the relationship, especially if you're using social selling as the mechanism to start the conversation. Right? Used to be that email worked really well.
Josh Hein:Right.
Vince Beese:It doesn't work very well anymore. Used to be that people picked up their phones at the head office desk and that's saying you can't do cold calling, but less and less people are picking up phones. That's right. And they're not listening to voice mails. So the point of the matter is where you can engage with them is on social.
Vince Beese:If you're gonna use social selling, then you've gotta be in for the long game, and you've gotta take your time
Josh Hein:Yeah.
Vince Beese:That's that's true. Establish a relationship before you're just like, blah blah blah blah blah.
Josh Hein:Yep. And
Vince Beese:we all get hit with the LinkedIn messages of just random nonsense that has nothing to do with me or my company or anything. Right? So it's
Josh Hein:Yeah. But, you know, I think what compounds there is when you've got someone who's reaching out to you blindly on, let's just say, LinkedIn in this scenario, and, you know, they're just they hit you with that pitch immediately. Yeah. Like, here's here's what we do. Here's, you know, all this stuff, and and I'm gonna completely transform your life or your business.
Josh Hein:You don't know anything about them. Nope. So go in and just look. The truth of the matter is they know you're a salesperson. Yeah.
Josh Hein:Of course. So start the conversation with, look. This is what we do, and and I'd like to see if there's an opportunity to help you. Focus the conversation around helping people is is the point. You ever had someone just throw a bunch of stuff on you or just pitch pitch pitch?
Josh Hein:Every day. Yeah.
Vince Beese:Every day and, like like, look. I'll answer my phone to random calls
Josh Hein:Me too.
Vince Beese:Because I love to challenge people that call. I'm like, what do you want? That's right. Uh-uh uh-uh uh-uh uh-uh. It's like, dude, you called.
Vince Beese:I picked up the phone. What is it? Right. Right. I was, I had a meeting 2 weeks ago with a CEO here, and he said, hey, I've got to take this call.
Vince Beese:I said, cool, because he also likes to answer these calls. Same thing. The person, the salesperson got him wild, stammer, he's like, how can I help you? Don't be surprised when someone picks up the phone. Be ready to ask the first question or whatever, how if you're going to start the conversation.
Vince Beese:So it's like right there, that CEO is like, I'm done because you don't even like, you're wasting my time right now.
Josh Hein:Right.
Vince Beese:Exactly. You know, it's not, hi. I'm Odin. I'm calling you from SalesHQ, and I'd like to sell you. You know, it's like, no.
Josh Hein:Right. Hey.
Vince Beese:How are you doing? Like, let's just you know, can
Josh Hein:we just have a normal conversation? Yeah.
Vince Beese:And that's 2 minutes. Right. Here's what I want to talk to you about. We solved this thing. You're at this vertical like our other clients.
Vince Beese:I'm hoping that maybe I can help you too, but I'm just starting a conversation.
Josh Hein:You got it. That's right. With a normal human being.
Vince Beese:Right? Yeah. Right. And I just I'd relate sales back to, again, like, if you're walking into a bar or a networking event, do you walk up to somebody at a networking event and just start spewing stuff about your company? I mean, maybe people do that.
Vince Beese:I don't know. And they do do that, and those people are ignored. And then they're standing in the corner
Josh Hein:at the
Vince Beese:end of the event because everyone's, like, that annoying person just tanning me my the business card. And I'm like, dude, keep your business card and your first of all, having a business card to me is a anyway, don't get me started.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Here we go. Right. We got
Vince Beese:them we got them fired up. But but it's isn't it funny, like, if we just simplify sales, it's not so hard That's right. If you don't just focus on results. That's right.
Josh Hein:The yeah. The number. Right? Making the sale.
Vince Beese:You talked about it earlier. Right? You never focused on the number because you weren't concerned about hitting your numbers. So what did that lead to? That led you doing really smart and good activities.
Josh Hein:That's right. Yeah. And I set my own you know, I would set my own goal. I had my own goals that were above a Let's face it. I mean, a quota is theoretically should be the minimum number that the business needs you to hit.
Josh Hein:That's like a minimum requirement of your job. That's why they're paying you. So and and now look, did I hit my personal goal every time? No. Yeah.
Josh Hein:But when I fell short of that personal goal, I was still well above my quote. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And and so, anyway, that's that's probably a whole another conversation about mindset and being willing to
Vince Beese:I'll give you one last example. We started talking about this. So I I again, I'll also respond to people on LinkedIn with some sales things that are interested in pitching me something at SalesHQ, and some young gentleman reached out to me, and I said he was pitching me on specifically just wanting a demo. I said, hey, I'll tell you what. I will not only give you a demo, I will allow you to provide a demo to me and others Wow.
Vince Beese:If you just join a networking event I'm hosting next week here at SalesHQ. Simple instructions. I'm gonna give you, you give me, you know, something about which, by the way, going to a networking event is not as punishment, it's actually a good thing.
Josh Hein:Yeah. That's
Vince Beese:true. So a couple days go by, hear nothing back from me, and what does he do? He says, hey, are you still interested in scheduling a demo? First of all, he said he's never interested in scheduling a demo, and you didn't follow my instructions. I said see above.
Vince Beese:Right. So he said, oh, hey. Sorry about that. What does he do? Goes back to pitching again a demo.
Vince Beese:I finally said, let me get this straight. You're just paid on scheduling demos? He goes, yes. Exactly. I'm like, so how transactional is that?
Vince Beese:Like, how short I literally gave him
Josh Hein:the
Vince Beese:formula for not only demoing me, but he could have had 10 demos that day.
Josh Hein:Right. That's right.
Vince Beese:He ignored it because he was so focused on, today, I need to get whatever the numbers, 10 demos, 6 demos, or whatever it is. I'm like, talk about someone either who needs a lot more coaching or shouldn't be in sales, one or the other.
Josh Hein:Yeah. That's right. Yeah. Probably, I mean You couldn't even help. One of the things I don't know.
Josh Hein:I don't know about all that. I'll take on the challenge. But, I mean, that's one of the things I love about sales is, you know, any you know, people can get in almost anyone can get into sales. And I hear it all the time, oh, I could never do sales. I can never do sure you could.
Josh Hein:In fact, some of the some of the best sellers that I've ever
Vince Beese:met are
Josh Hein:not people who are overly energetic and all these
Vince Beese:100 percent agree.
Josh Hein:You know? And and but with that said, this guy you know, this person that you were talking about with the that's He's coachable. You have to you they have to be coachable. And it sounds like he that person needed some coaching.
Vince Beese:Or he shouldn't be in sales. I mean, he's focused on the wrong things. Right. But, hey, we can go on and on and on. Before I let you go, I got a tough question I have to ask you.
Vince Beese:Please. You better be ready. Mentally just mentally prepare yourself. I'll do my best. K.
Josh Hein:No. I think I'll be alright.
Vince Beese:What is something about Josh that's interesting
Josh Hein:Uh-huh.
Vince Beese:That most people don't know?
Josh Hein:Yeah. That that is,
Vince Beese:Don't tell me, like, you're a big, NC State Pac fan. Like, I I like I like State. That's good, but it's not interesting.
Josh Hein:Yeah. There's lots of people Maybe it's not interesting to you.
Vince Beese:No. I'm just kidding. It's interesting to the other Pac fans.
Josh Hein:Yeah. That's right.
Vince Beese:That's about it.
Josh Hein:Something interesting about me. I would say that, probably a lot of people don't know this, so I am, I'm 662 now. I, the interesting fact is that I graduated high school. I was, 5 4, like a £140, and I grew 7 inches my 1st year of college. So I came I came home, and my grandma started crying.
Josh Hein:She was like, oh, you're beautiful. I never thought you were gonna grow. And so, we bless her butterfly bless her heart. Yeah. So, that's not something I mean, that's Maybe it's
Vince Beese:in a year. Maybe it's interesting.
Josh Hein:Maybe it's not. But it's not something a lot
Vince Beese:of people know about me. That's freakish, really, Josh.
Josh Hein:I hurt my whole body hurt. I've got it. Yeah. My whole body hurt. I mean, that was,
Vince Beese:What's wrong with you? Are you did you drink something?
Josh Hein:I don't know what happened. I mean, like, first year drinks?
Vince Beese:Like, what was it? I mean,
Josh Hein:I draw yeah. I always drank a lot of beer. It might have been a couple of beers in there. Yeah. I don't know what I don't know what it was.
Josh Hein:Growth spurt. I just grew. It took me until, yeah. You said you played high school football? I did.
Josh Hein:Yeah. £140? Well, yeah. And my problem, that's actually part of the reason I ended up so I got, unfortunately, I had quite a few concussions, and, in fact, at one point, I had this maybe is another interesting fact. I had 3 concussions in a month, and my doctor told me that, he would no longer clear me to play, and part of that reason was he's like, you're out there playing with Giants.
Josh Hein:You're tiny. And, I mean, in his defense, there were a lot of big guys out there, and I was not big. Yeah. So, yeah, 3 concussions in a month. Wide receiver.
Josh Hein:No. Quarterback in corner. Yeah. Some some of those concussions were a little scary, but, I mean, that probably it was probably a good time to hang it up. Yeah.
Josh Hein:So yeah. But I yeah. I've planned to play sport I played other sports playing pretty much my entire life.
Vince Beese:That is interesting. I'll give you that.
Josh Hein:Will you give it to me? I will. Okay. Alright. I've heard I've heard worse.
Josh Hein:Thank you.
Vince Beese:You know? But, hey, man. I really appreciate you coming on, telling your story today. How can people find you?
Josh Hein:Yeah. So, my, training program is called pitchless selling. Pitchless selling. I like what we've been talking about, but, yeah, no pitch. But, of course, LinkedIn is fine.
Josh Hein:Josh Heinz, it's h e I n, like Heinz ketchup, but no z. So it's No relation, unfortunately. That's exactly right. That's what everybody says. Oh, too bad.
Josh Hein:Too bad. No z. Yeah. So just Josh Heinz on LinkedIn, reach out, send me a message or whatever. I'm glad.
Vince Beese:We'll have information in the speaker notes too. Hey, man. Thanks for coming on.
Josh Hein:Yeah. Thank you very much.
Vince Beese:Next time, sales HQ.